The Canon 7D vs Nikon D300s In Shooting Concerts

by Chris Gampat on 10/16/2010

Those of you that have read this blog for a while know that I’m a fan of Chiptunes and that shooting these concerts is often a joy due to the challenges presented. If you haven’t been to a chiptunes concert, most artists usually just stand in the middle of the stage with little to no movement just DJing via their gameboy, macbook or keyboard. Because of this, it is essential to capture emotions and interactions that happen and as I learned, never review your images while shooting because you will miss some of the best moments. I’ve shot a chiptunes concert with the Nikon D300sbefore and now that I’ve finally been able to do one with the 7D, the two can be compared toe to toe. This is a specific add-on to the 7D vs D300s battle that I previously wrote about.

7D Concert Gallery

The photos I published with the Nikon D300s while at PAX East and shooting a concert can be found here.

Why Not The 60D?

Readers may be asking themselves why I’m not comparing the D300s to the new 60D. The Canon EOS 60Disn’t meant to take on the D300s, it’s meant to take on the D7000. From what I’ve tested so far with both cameras, the Nikon D7000will best the Canon EOS 60Din almost every aspect of still photo shooting.

For more info you can check out my comparison of the three in the Canon lineup and Gevon’s hands-on with the D7000.

Gear Used

Nikon D300s with 70-200mm ED VR II

Canon 7D with 35mm F/1.4 L and 85mm F/1.8 USM

Autofocus

Canon 7D

First off, kudos to Canon for revamping their autofocus system. It is leaps and bounds better than the Canon EOS 5D Mark IIin concert shooting (but the 5D MK II still delivers better images at the high ISOs I used, I was at 6400 almost all night.) The problem is that it can still be a bit slow. However, the system is almost always very accurate with me only having one or two problems throughout the night of shooting. In this case, flipping the camera in manual focus mode and Live view as well as choosing the exact area where I wanted to focus worked very well. What helped even more is the easy way to digitally zoom into an area to ensure correct focusing.

Manually focusing through the viewfinder would perhaps have been a nightmare because of just how dark the venue was. In fact, when I did have autofocusing issues, the subject I wanted to capture actually looked very clearly in-focus in the viewfinder. Needless to say, the Canon 7Dstill did perform very well.

What really came in handy during shooting was the back AF-On button. Using that to focus while having my aperture preset and adjusting my shutter speed really helped in nailing the shot. Every now and then I would re-adjust the aperture, but in most situations even F/2.8 was too dark.

As a feature for Canon to work on, I’d love to be able to have my focusing point highlighted in red and stay that way for easier viewing in the dark. Currently, the point only blinks red when you switch it and then switched back immediately to black.

Additionally, I really wish that Av mode would have a cut-off setting of not using a shutter speed less than the focal length of your lens. This is where the reciprocal rule of shooting kicks in. Because of this, I had to use manual mode, though Av would have probably been easier at some points.

Nikon D300s


In terms of autofocus, the Nikon D300sreally does beat the 7D. It is quick, accurate and even though it only goes up to ISO 3200 it can still shoot in near darkness at F/2.8. The AF points are clearly visible in the dark as well. Though I spent most of my time at PAX East shooting with the Nikon D3s the Nikon D300ssure was able to hold its own many times throughout shooting.

Nikon’s autofocus is also much more reliable and simpler to use. Additionally, it is also smarter in that it will always focus on the subject that you want it to based on the composition of your photo. Instead of the system focusing on the gameboy in the image above, it knew that I wanted to focus on the subject’s face. It’s nice to have one less thing to worry about when shooting.

High ISO Abilities

Admittedly, this isn’t an entirely fair test. Why’s that? The Nikon D300swas shot in JPEG mode when reviewing it because the vast amount of news that came out during that time didn’t allow for much editing when you need to shoot photos, edit, write a story, and then make time for a meeting right afterwards with another vendor.

The Nikon D300s only goes up to ISO 3200 and the Canon 7Dgoes up to 6400. Both cameras are capable of delivering very clean images even though the D300s just beats out the 7D due to the 12MP sensor. As of recently, Nikon has been raising the resolution output of their sensors despite saying that all we need is 12MP.

We’ll see how this fairs, but in my tests with pre-production units it is still quite impressive.

So Which One?

If I really had to choose a system for concert photography, it would be Nikon. The AF system just works so well and I feel that Canon still has some catching up to do. Granted, I do feel that they are working on it and that good progress has been seen and made.

On the other hand, I feel that Nikon cameras are still mostly specialized tools for photographers. If I had wanted to shoot HD video at one point during the shows, I would’ve went with the Canon 7Ddue to more video options as well as better overall quality of video.

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  • http://micahmedia.com Micah

    …since when does the D300s only go up to 3200 ISO? And the 7d only 6400? Just not how it is. Maybe those are the highest ISOs you’d use, but you should qualify your statements with that.

    Otherwise seems on the money. Oh, except for the lens selection. Using the 35/2 and 85/1.8 would probably have been a bit better comparison (both excellent lenses which I own!).

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      Hi Micah,

      I own the 7D and it only goes up to 6400 unless you use ISO expansion. As for the D300s, it is the same. I don’t know of many photographers that would ever use the settings higher than this because the results get really grainy.

      Even better would have been Canon 70-200mm F2.8 L IS II. Canon’s PR dept have very few of them out on loan though.

      • http://popscure.wordpress.com popscure

        nicely done!

        • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

          Merci!

      • Matt

        I own the Nikon and a mate owns the Canon we both have done some extensive comparisons of both cameras for noise and the Canon was rubbish, there were some good features on the Canon…. but over all it was very noisy at the low end in comparison to the Nikon it required more recovery than the Nikon did

        • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

          I don’t find that at the more traditional ISO stops like 1600 and 3200. Put it at 1250, and yes; you’re absolutely correct.

      • http://micahmedia.com Micah

        Right. Who doesn’t open up the highest useable ISOs? Especially for concert photography? I shot the d300 at 6400 most of the time I had it for concerts, especially with a 2.8 zoom. Of course all of my shots are grainy rubbish that no one has ever been happy with. Just see for yourself: http://bands.micahmedia.com

        I even used the D2x at 3200! Horrors!

        6400 is there for a reason. It looks damn good if you shoot raw and process accordingly. Sure you have to nail exposure. But if that extra stop means freezing motion and getting the shot, you take it.

        • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

          “Sure you have to nail exposure. But if that extra stop means freezing motion and getting the shot, you take it.”

          I believe you are underestimating the value of underexposing the image and pushing the exposure levels in post combined with noise reduction, sharpening and RGB color processing.

  • http://www.wingliu.com Wing Liu

    The truth is the EF 85 1.8 is not a particularly fast AF lens.

    Should really used the EF 70-200 2.8 IS II as the focusing is lightning fast and I love mine even with a 5D II !!!

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      Canon has few of them available for review. The current one is in Paris for EXPO. The 85mm is plenty fast.

  • stkerr

    Is it fair to compare two different types of cameras while using two different types of lenses? In my experiences, trying to compare a zoom lens (like the one you used with your Nikon) to a shorter ‘portrait’ lens (which you used with your Canon) is like trying to compare apples to oranges, especially if you are comparing the auto focus for each.

    Just a though.

    STKerr

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      Not totally, but in a way yes it is. What also counts is the different apertures that you are shooting at. I almost never shot at F/1.4 with the primes because too little was in focus and I’m very picky about my sharpness. Most was actually at F/2.8 and in the rare occasion, F/4. Same goes for the Nikon zoom.

  • http://thecrkelley.wordpress.com The Mental Secretary

    I had a Nikon Coolpix S220 which I liked – it was my first digital camera. But it stopped working for some reason. When I turn it on, I see fuzzy light moving around my screen.

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      Maybe it’s haunted :)

  • http://www.iteezy.com/ iteezy

    woowww….its very good….especially the pics

  • http://imaginariumofpau.wordpress.com Imaginarium of Pau

    I own a Nikon DSLR. Though mine is not part of the two competing models here, I’d like to share what my photo pals think of the two brands.

    Most of the photography enthusiasts I know told me that Nikon has the better quality, user-friendly and less pricey lens – though these things obviously depends also on the model, generally this is the stand. Most of them find Canon as a brand which is good in branding only. But, it is also undeniable that the latter has a competitive quality as well. However, most professionals say Nikon is the better brand between the two.

    If i were to ask, I have not tried much of Canon (I mean I got to hold it for a couple of times but not really explored it). So I am not sure if my pals are right on this matter.

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      Maybe for concerts Nikon is the choice. I’d agree as the AF is faster. But overall use, I’d personally still stick to Canon. Compare the prices of a Canon lens to it’s Nikon equivalent and you’ll see that the Canon’s are much more affordable.

  • http://iamexistent.wordpress.com existencemodulus

    i think both cameras work for almost everything if you are skilled enough. But your shots are good. Besides, which camera is easier to use?

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      That’s a tough one. I configured both to my personal liking.

  • http://roarmkting.wordpress.com roarmkting

    The genre of concert going looks really interesting/unique. I have a colleague who is currently working on making a music video through a series of montage footage at shows for a band. I’ll be sure to share your insight to her on your experience with Canon and Nikon.

  • Karl

    Good stuff. I shoot Canon and love taking my cam to see my fave small indie bands play in dumpy little venues.

    Light? There ain’t no light! Starting settings on my 50D are ISO 2500, f/1.8 and a shutter of 1/60th. From there I dial in. Sometimes, just sometimes, I can get the shutter above 1/100th when they turn on a couple more spots ;)

    The last concert I went to the singer complained that the lights on him were too bright so they turned off ALL of the forward lights (all 3 or 4 of them ;) and only had a couple of backlights for the drummer. You want to talk challenging conditions!

    All the best,
    Karl

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      Sound like a rough challenge. Did you encounter a lot of AF issues?

      • Karl

        No AF issues at all. My two concert lenses are the Sigma 30/1.4 (needed some micro-adjust to stop it from front focusing) and the Canon 50/1.4

        Both focus nicely in challenging conditions but especially the Canon 50mm, I swear that thing can focus on a snowflake in a snowstorm. Can’t remember the last time it blatantly misfocused or just couldn’t lock on.

        Cheers!

        • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

          interesting. Thanks for the input

  • http://vanachewashere.wordpress.com Vanache

    I’ve been planning on getting a 7D, an upgrade from my Rebel XT … this article helped me with my choice. I’m going to shell out a few more just for the nikon lens adapter.

    Thanks

    http://vanachewashere.wordpress.com

  • http://justinschwab.wordpress.com Justin Schwab

    The Nikon camera system has always been rock solid in its quality. I understand the video features are wonderful on the new Canon cameras compared to Nikon. But I feel anyone who owns a SLR is a photographer and less interested in video production.

    Always good to keep up a good comparison on the new cameras though.

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      “But I feel anyone who owns a SLR is a photographer and less interested in video production.”

      DSLR cinematography and bigasslens.com. But thanks for the commentary.

  • Kirk Lawler

    I have been doing a lot of performance photography for hire lately (mostly indoor, or outdoor at night) and here is what I have used with excellent results that can routinely be printed at 20×24″:
    * Canon 5DMII with 70-200mm f/4L IS for low key acts like folk musicians and sketch comedians. F/4 unless the light is very bright, in which case I might risk f/5.6. If more depth of field is needed, I just move back instead of stopping down further than that. ISO 500 to 800, depending on how bright the light is and how active the subjects are. As long as you stick with the center cross hair, the AF can keep up just fine. 5DMII image quality is superb when exposures are good, but editing latitude is limited when they are not.
    * Nikon D700 with 70-200mm f/2.8 VRI for dance and rock and roll. F/4-5.6. Rather than dial up to very high ISOs, I cap the sensitivity at 800 and shoot loads of pictures. Many will not turn out due to relatively slow shutter speeds, but when they do, the extra work pays off big-time. The D700 AF can track almost anything and the amount of editing latitude is astonishing.
    PS I also own a 7D, but am not happy with the noise above ISO 400 and don’t use it for this kind of work. Personal taste, I guess.
    PPS I always use a tripod with IS/VR off, and only shoot in RAW. Dress rehearsals are much easier to shoot than performances.

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      Hi Kirk,

      Where do you shoot that you have that much room to have a 70-200mm F/4 with you all the time and to be able to use it with great effects? Very few underground NYC bars have that much room.

      I never bring a tripod. I value mobility much more.

      Thanks for visiting the blog and the comments.

  • http://www.flickr.com/livefromphilly James

    Great write up! Small venue shows make up the vast majority of what I shoot, so I’m glad I “picked correctly” and got a D300s instead of a 7D a few months ago when all of my Nikon owning friends picked up 7Ds. Did you use any flash at all? I mostly shoot hip-hop shows where the MCs are bouncing around on stage and flailing their arms like mad men in horribly lit venues so not using flash is rarely an option. I’m very curious as to how the two cameras compare when an SB-900 or the Canon equivalent are added to the mix.

    • http://thephoblographer.wordpress.com Chris Gampat

      No flash, I’m usually now allowed to.

      I’ll consider that in the future.

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  • http://d300sreview.com Jirud

    Nikon D300S – I’m totally happy with this camera. You can make as much and simply gorgeous pictures. Relatively easy to use, very good instruction manual, and you can take snapshots of any kind with it. The Live View function is awesome. Very satisfied and highly recommend.

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